Uh oh.

I've got a short one for you today. I just finished reading an article called "What to Do When You Come in Second" It really got me thinking: this whole time I've been focused on getting the job on your first try, but not everyone will get a job on their first try. So today, I just wanted to share an idea from the aforementioned article that could help you out in case you don't score a job offer the first time.

Mark Jaffe applied a little bit of his search firm's experience to your job search experience, in the form of a follow-up. Keep in mind that the reason you didn't get the job isn't always because they didn't want you. Sometimes it's because they wanted someone else more. But like Mr. Jaffe says, that decision is based almost entirely on interview performance, and the employer may be sweating the decision afterward.

So what happens if you don't get the job? Well, I've suggested before that you send a thank you note shortly after getting the news. The purpose of the note is to thank your interviewers, and maybe squeeze some information out of them on how you can improve your next interview performance.

The next thing you can do, as Mr. Jaffe suggests, is do another follow-up a couple of months in the future to see how things are going. The idea may seem a bit... well, snobby, but you may be able to get your foot back in the door by doing it.

Let's think about this: If the new guy isn't working out, they may express a willingness to reevaluate you and/or others for a position, and likely you'll be the first candidate to know about it. If the new guy is working out, and you were crafty about how you asked, it shows the employer that you're interested in their success, and still quite interested in the job. Maybe they'll consider hanging on to your resume and interviewing documents for future reference.

Keep this in mind in case you run into this situation!

Gettin' the Job - Patience is a Virtue

For the second part in this Gettin' the Job series, I interviewed another good friend of mine by the name of Bryan Wintermute. He's also a graduating senior in the Software Engineering Technology. Just like the last one, I'll show the transcript first, then I'll write some awesome stuff about it.

M: Today I'm with Bryan Wintermute, a student here at OIT. He'll be graduating this spring, and he recently acquired a job working at Microsoft, and that's in Seattle, correct?

B: Yep.

M: So, I guess the first question to ask is, why did you choose Microsoft?

B: Well, I really wanted to work at a big company. I've always had a thing for big companies. And I wanted to work at a place that people would know [chuckle]. You know, it's like "hey, Grandparents, I work here," "oh, I know that place!" Also, I've always wanted to do something that "mattered". Games: people like to play games, I like to play games, but I've never had an interest in doing games. I want to do something that has a use like business, or personal or whatever that somebody can use to be productive. That's just my thing... and plus, everybody uses Microsoft things - Windows, Office, what have you.

M: What is your official job title at Microsoft?

B: I am a Software Design Engineer in Testing on the Windows Team.

M: Okay, so you're just going to be working on the Operating System?

B: Yeah it's THE Windows team. Yeah, they have the Xbox, and Office, and Bing... I'm on Windows. And the official name is like the "Windows Sustainability Team" or something like that. They deal with security and all the stuff underneath.

M: Did you apply for this position specifically? Or after the process, did they place you here?

B: They pretty much placed me. What it was, uh, back in Spring they asked for our resumes, and I gave my resume to them. Then months later, we did a phone screening and then they asked me what interests me. So I said Windows. I also said Windows Mobile, and that kind of stuff because I like the little PDA stuff. And so my recruiter, who helped me through this whole thing, set me up with interviews for the Windows team. Then from there I think they further defined it, and they asked me to join a specific team; the sustainability team. And so I accepted that one.

M: This recruiter: was she an OIT grad or was she just somebody assigned to you?

B: She was just somebody that was assigned to me. Human resources or something. She was really fantastic.

M: Really helpful?

B: Yeah. She was my final recruiter. So I had some people that helped me with my phone screen, and then helped me kind of get up there. But then she was the one I actually talked to that helped me figure out where I wanted to go.

M: Alright. Did everybody who was a potential for this position have a recruiter? Or was she just for everybody?

B: They have multiple. I don't know how many they have, but there are many different recruiters.

M: Cool. So I guess that sums up the job itself. How did you initially find out about this opening at Microsoft?

B: Back in Spring term of last year (2009), my professor in Junior Project, said "if anybody's interested in Microsoft, email me your resumes and I'll send them up [to them]." And so then he forwarded it onto the Microsoft recruiter for our school. So there's a campus recruiter, and from there he helped us get along in the process.

M: Did you get a briefing of what the opening was about, initially, or were you just like "oh! I'll send the resume in and I'll hear about-"?

B: It was pretty much that. Send in my resume and see what happens. I've got to tell you, I really wasn't expecting anything, but you gotta do it. You gotta try, you know.

M: You said you sent out your resume in Spring 2009, and then you had to wait until when to have any contact with somebody from Microsoft?

B: Basically until January. We had some conference calls [before then] with like 50 people from all over the world. He said "you should buy some books," and told us what to study, and that kind of stuff. But then I didn't hear anything until January, when I had a phone screening with a recruiter of some sort, I don't remember who it was.

M: And that screening led into more interviews, I'm assuming.

B: Yeah. From there they determined who they wanted to bring up to Seattle, and who to turn away. And so after that phone screen, it was about two or three weeks later I got an email saying "we want to see you!" and then it was a couple of weeks [after that] that they finally brought me up.

M: What sort of things did they have you do when you were up there?

B: Let's see. I had five interviews; lasted eight hours. And they were things like, well because it's a testing position, one of the questions was like "you own a parking garage. How would you test the ticket machine?" You know, you give your money and you get a ticket. "how would you test that?" And then I also had to write five separate functions: atoi, and other little things like that.

M: Did they have you go out with a part of the team for dinner, or any sort of orientation stuff while you were up there?

B: Nothing like that. I just had the five interviews with five individuals; all one on one. And one of them was a lunch interview. And so I had a lunch with one of my interviewers. So, it was still an interview, but it was a lot more relaxed.

M: Did you get a tour of the facilities, even?

B: Well, the interviews went across like four or five different buildings. And the campus is huge. They have shuttles everywhere, and I got to see parts of the campus like that.

M: Okay. You have the job offer now, and I'm sure you've accepted it... and it's, what, nearly a year later that you found out about it [chuckle]. Would you say you used a lot of the skills and knowledge you picked up at OIT throughout this process?

B: Definitely. Being able to understand what they were asking me to program, like atoi. "Oh, I know exactly what he wants from that," and then [ofcourse] you ask them to define it, but being able to understand almost immediately what they want, and then being able to do it. I got a fantastic, I think, foundation. I never programmed before coming here. And it was, well, great.

M: Microsoft is a huge company, like you said, and a lot of people strive to work there. Would you have any advice for other students who might want to work at a place like Microsoft or even Google?

B: Uh... try. A lot of people think, "they're too big for me." You know, I wasn't really expecting to actually get a position, because you hear how hard everything is, and we're all entry level. So, try. And then in the interviews and stuff, just keep talking - don't babble - but, you know, keep talking. If they're silent, chances are you haven't answered their question. Be flexible. There are people, especially at Microsoft, from a lot of different ethnicities that you have to be able to communicate with. You have to try to understand them, and not everybody is going to tune to you. Especially when you're "entry level nothing" [chuckle].

M: This whole long wait for the first screener call; was Microsoft on your mind the whole time?

B: At the beginning. Because during the Summer is when we had the conference call, and they said, "read it," so I was reading the books, and I was looking stuff up. Then Fall term starts, and I just kind of forgot about it. And then, on top of that, [the Microsoft recruiter] had my email address wrong. I wasn't getting half the messages! One of my friends was like, "did you get this?" I'm like, "no." So I emailed him, and it turns out he had it wrong in his address book. If I hadn't asked about it, who know where I'd be.

M: Yeah. Lucky you had that friend who was also getting the emails.

B: [laugh]

M: It's obvious that it takes a lot of patience at a big company like that, in contrast to Clint's interview process, where he basically got the job offer immediately. But would you prefer it to be another way?

B: I'm not sure. The 8 hours [of interviews] was definitely long, but the people were so nice and the campus is beautiful! And the day I went up, it was actually sunny, like the one day in Washington it's sunny. So it was a really nice experience.

B: They flew me up on Monday, put me in a beautiful hotel, paid for everything. It was definitely an awesome experience. And then, you got to see a lot of what goes on there. It is a little bit out of your comfort zone, and that's nice, too. You get to see how other people do. You know, we've been here [in school] for how many years?

M: So now you're getting out into the world and feeling the stresses. Are you looking forward to being up in Seattle for this position?

B: I think so. I like big cities. Clint, he likes small Boise [chuckle]. I want big city. And this is just outside of Seattle, and it's a beautiful area up there - it rains a lot, but I'm used to it. And on top of that it's not that far from home, Portland, so it's like three hours away. Not that big of a deal.

M: Alright! Well thanks for coming in and answering some questions!

Bryan's energy is great. Congratulations to him for scoring his position. There are three huge, unique themes that shine through this interview which I'd like to cover. First, you need to try. Next, you aren't alone. And lastly, you need to be patient.

As Bryan mentioned, he wasn't really expecting anything to come of this opportunity. Microsoft is a large company, which demands a lot from its employees. Add to that the economy, and our "entry level" status and, naturally, getting a job of this caliber will seem out of reach. But how can you tell if you can reach something without testing the waters, first? Bryan said it himself: you have to try. Put yourself out there and try to get the job you want, whether it seems attainable or not. That is the best job hunting strategy, if you ask me.

One of the things I found to be really encouraging is all of the help that Microsoft provided for Bryan, and the rest of the potentials. A lot of companies will do this. Companies want you to work for them. They want you to be the person they need. And so they will go out of their way to assist you in the process. Bryan had multiple "recruiters" to help him through the process by telling him what kind of things to study, helping him figure out where he would fit best, and he also had access to plenty of other resources such as Career Services. You don't have to brave the job search world alone, and that really feels good to know.

Bryan had to wait nearly a year for his job offer. This isn't uncommon, especially with an opportunity like this. Waiting for so long can be very stressful at times, and at other times you may not even feel like you're waiting. This is why it's important to start trucking on your job search early; before your senior year. And don't be afraid or too stubborn to look for other job opportunities while the time passes. It's never a bad idea to have a backup plan. I've read in other places that some Google potentials go through 7-8 months of interviewing, and sometimes don't even get a job offer. So do yourself a favor and be ready if that's the case.

A lot of other themes come up in this interview, too. Just like Clint, Bryan prepared himself for the interviews before hand. Brushing up on skills you may or may not have used in years could potentially make or break your interview.

One of the things Bryan mentions about his interviews is how to go about answering questions. The worst thing you can do is not say enough. Sometimes all the interviewer wants it to know how you think yourself through problems, versus whether or not you're right. So keep talking. Like Bryan says, if they are completely silent, they haven't yet heard what they want. If you don't know the answer, find a way to show them you know how you'd attain that answer on your own. They don't expect you to know every single thing they ask you about, but they do expect you to be able to learn those things quickly and effectively. Just make sure you aren't blabbering about stuff they don't care about.

So that's another interview in the bag. I'd like to line up some interviews with other people, but I really don't know any others just yet! So, if you know someone who would like to answer some questions about their job search, whether they've gotten a job or not, send them my way!